I don’t know if I’m an entertainer. The most I do is go undercover on jobs and occasionally give speeches. I’m glad, though. That I don’t bring added stress to our time together.
Well, for second, you’re incredibly narcissistic… [He’s teasing!] You’re inquisitive. More calculating than you appear on the surface. A little closed off sometimes like anyone can be, but in a way that’s putting on a smile and a change in topic. I want to say you have trouble with endings, but you can correct me there. You burn hot and will do anything to keep your passions going. Being connected to you isn’t just a way of being, it’s a way of surviving. You try and see other perspectives but I don’t think you’d waver on your core ones. … you’re a good friend.
[It matters to him to end on that one, and it’s hard for him to say. He doesn’t normally put friendships into words.]
You can imagine how well I handle betrayal first thing in the morning, too. It’s lucky it made it out of our encounter still working.
No, but you entertain more ideas than most anyone else would. And who knows, maybe when you take me to a job you can be stressful. I'm open to change.
[ That's certainly a lot more than Birdie expected in an answer, all together all at once, and it takes a minute for her to get her response together. ]
Oh, I think I might really be a narcissist. It's too nice seeing you say nice things about me like that. Though I think your reputation for observation is undersold with how well you've got me pegged. And I do try to be a good friend, though I've been told before that I can fall short.
[ She hasn't really gone into everything that happened in Denver, almost entirely because she assumes it would reflect very badly on her, and that seems like such a sad risk to take these nights. ]
I don't know if the coffee maker is blessed for surviving or if you're a lot more saintly than I thought.
Oh, that’s very likely. I’m all right being stressful and annoying in those times if the job gets done and everyone gets out alive. That’s a rule of thumb in general.
Does anyone succeed all the time? Though I’ll grant, some ways of falling short are forgivable, others might not be.
The saints have never helped anyone survive in my experience. I thought better of entirely breaking it until I had a downstairs backup for the backup.
That's the best kind of stressful, honestly. The worst is the kind where the reason behind it is someone else being awful, which I don't figure you'd be around much.
Which ways are unforgivable? So I can know what to avoid.
No, they really don't, except for you. Saint Kaz of the Mercy toward Coffee Makers That Betray Him.
Intent does matter. Execution does as well, admittedly, but it is worse when you know a person’s got the wrong intentions at heart. It’s also stressful when someone else can’t easily walk away from it when they’ve had enough.
I actually haven’t had any of the Crows betray me to that point, now that I think about it. [He’s had colleagues and casual friends betray him, and mentor figures, but not his close-knit family unit. He’s grateful for that.] So I suppose this is more theoretical based on betrayals of a less-close nature. Selling out my people. Getting one of them hurt through intentional means. Leaving someone behind on a mission so save your own skin. Things of that nature. What are your non-negotiables?
I’ll take my demon moniker instead, it’s served me well enough so far.
Stressful, too, being watched all the time. I don't recommend it.
[ Birdie decides, for now, to keep how Denver started to herself. No matter how accidental that betrayal might have been, the amount of death as the end result isn't something she wants to be part of her reputation with him. ]
Selling me out to someone else, those that'd hurt me and other Kindred. Or selling someone else out the same way. Trying to make me kept, or getting me to hurt someone that doesn't have it coming. I'm happy to help, but I'm not anyone else's tool. None of which I really expect from you and yours.
You know I can't promise I won't hurt anyone. I can't even promise I won't run. I'm not always in control of those things, but I do my best with it.
I've been called demonic a few times. It does feel a little more powerful than being a saint, doesn't it?
Indeed. Thankfully anytime I’ve been incarcerated, I’ve managed to break out before too long.
No, we’re not big on selling out our friends or using them as tools. Those that join the Dregs (which you haven’t, just explaining) are given jobs to perform, but the joining of the gang is voluntary and many have come and gone. So as it stands, those are reasonable terms.
Not being in control isn’t the same as harming someone with malicious intent, but I’ll keep that in mind.
It does. No saint ever helped me. I’m not giving them credit for anything I’ve done. Being called a demon though, it’s made people take notice in a way that I can use.
Do I need to worry about you getting incarcerated often?
That's good to know. You're already doing much better in practice than most gangs I've encountered. I'm impressed you're able to keep so many people loyal to you, considering the challenges.
I appreciate that.
Doesn't help that a lot of people's ideas of what's monstrous and demonic are heavily skewed based on what they don't like. Someone puts themself up as a saint, or an agent of saints, then it's easy to say anyone they don't align with is a demon.
Not anymore, or at least, I haven’t gotten caught in a fair number of years now.
It’s definitely not foolproof, but I’ve found that it works better if you give someone a reason to stay rather than figuring out ways to trap them from leaving. If someone’s goals don’t align with mine anyway, why would I want them to stay around?
It is a way that’s been used to dismiss ideas and people whom others find threatening, to undermine their positions before they gain power. In my position, I don’t really have to be liked, so being called demonic names doesn’t hit as hard as those pious hypocrites wish it did. People in the Barrel want a monster standing in their doorway when the fangs are protecting them.
Well, at least there's that. Not that I've never been arrested, but it is very inconvenient.
True. The problem usually comes up when the goals on the outside don't match the ones on the inside, and you don't find out until it's too late. Or at least, that's where my problems come up.
You don't know the half of it, but you're very right. It's a tactic they've used for ages, and they think it still holds when the people they try to push out with it embrace it instead. Most nights, from what I've seen and if I had to choose, I'd rather be the monster than their saint.
It is inconvenient. In some ways nicer than being on the streets at certain times of my life, but it did cut into my plans, so it didn’t last long.
It is a problem. I err on not really trusting anyone until they’ve proven it to minimize the risk, but I won’t pretend that there haven’t been turncoats at times within the gang. Or that it hasn’t ever happened to me outside of it, either.
I couldn’t agree more. Then again, the people crying monster aren’t ones I’d want in my corner, anyway. It can be difficult to work around them, pragmatically speaking, but my feelings aren’t hurt by it.
I only ever stayed a night or two way back when. Back before I had plans that would be inconvenienced by being at the police station during the day. Usually for something I did at a rally, or the time I busted a cop's tail light.
In my experience, sometimes it's better to avoid motives entirely and work just with what you can see. Clear limits, clear boundaries. Not that I suggest that for your crows, they seem like they'd plow through your personal boundaries for the sake of friendship, which is very sweet of them.
So, what, are we starting a smaller club of monsters?
I'm sure the tail light and the cop driving the car using it deserved it. Mine were for more nefarious reasons. Theft, assault, burglary, things of that nature.
I don't always trust what I can just see, but I understand your point about clear boundaries. No, I don't have that with the Crows. [They were honestly family at this point.]
As long as I don't have to pay club dues or recruit others.
They're good, your Crows. With Kindred, we call a group like that a coterie. A group coming together for the common goal of survival, among other things. Friendship, though, isn't always a part of that, though it is nice when it happens.
I think we can manage that. Free monster club, volunteers only.
Do you have a coterie like that now? Friendship wasn’t intentional on my end at the start. Though I don’t regret it. [One of the rare times that happens, she knows how he feels about things out of his control.]
BYODFTE (Bring Your Own Distaste for the Establishment)?
It's been awhile since I visited Vegas. Apparently I didn't do it right when I was there. It's good though that you have some people scattered around that you can count on.
I actually do know someone with a machine that can make stickers. I know you were likely joking, but that is a thing that some people apparently do have in their homes.
Next time you'll have to stop by the Wadjet. [ Like the Luxor, only somehow more Egyptian and with a lot of snake decor. ] That's where I stayed after I got out of Denver.
Makes sense. A few years back I had a friend that had a button machine that makes pins at her place, like a hand-punch deal with a lever. She could make little mirrors with it, too.
I'll make a mental note of it. What do you like about it?
I know buttons are popular, especially put on bags, but I just think about the holes they make. Then again, probably because of that I'm not the target demographic.
All good reasons. I’ve never actually gone swimming in a pool before. I’ve fallen into one, so I suppose I technically swam in one, but it wasn’t for recreation.
It seems like a good way to share art or slogans. I can appreciate them in theory.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
timeasmymeasure
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Date: 2023-08-06 04:41 pm (UTC)Well, you know me. Full of kind thoughts.
My best guess is that it didn't have any coffee in it.
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Date: 2023-08-06 05:02 pm (UTC)You are. You’re more than just the kind thoughts, but that does come to mind as part of you.
It did not. Then it took a suspiciously long time to percolate when it did.
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Date: 2023-08-06 05:56 pm (UTC)Is it narcissistic to ask what else comes to mind?
Terrible betrayal from a coffee machine. It's in the name that it ought to have coffee in it and everything.
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Date: 2023-08-06 06:21 pm (UTC)Well, for second, you’re incredibly narcissistic… [He’s teasing!] You’re inquisitive. More calculating than you appear on the surface. A little closed off sometimes like anyone can be, but in a way that’s putting on a smile and a change in topic. I want to say you have trouble with endings, but you can correct me there. You burn hot and will do anything to keep your passions going. Being connected to you isn’t just a way of being, it’s a way of surviving. You try and see other perspectives but I don’t think you’d waver on your core ones. … you’re a good friend.
[It matters to him to end on that one, and it’s hard for him to say. He doesn’t normally put friendships into words.]
You can imagine how well I handle betrayal first thing in the morning, too. It’s lucky it made it out of our encounter still working.
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Date: 2023-08-06 09:02 pm (UTC)[ That's certainly a lot more than Birdie expected in an answer, all together all at once, and it takes a minute for her to get her response together. ]
Oh, I think I might really be a narcissist. It's too nice seeing you say nice things about me like that. Though I think your reputation for observation is undersold with how well you've got me pegged. And I do try to be a good friend, though I've been told before that I can fall short.
[ She hasn't really gone into everything that happened in Denver, almost entirely because she assumes it would reflect very badly on her, and that seems like such a sad risk to take these nights. ]
I don't know if the coffee maker is blessed for surviving or if you're a lot more saintly than I thought.
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Date: 2023-08-06 09:22 pm (UTC)Does anyone succeed all the time? Though I’ll grant, some ways of falling short are forgivable, others might not be.
The saints have never helped anyone survive in my experience. I thought better of entirely breaking it until I had a downstairs backup for the backup.
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Date: 2023-08-06 10:14 pm (UTC)Which ways are unforgivable? So I can know what to avoid.
No, they really don't, except for you. Saint Kaz of the Mercy toward Coffee Makers That Betray Him.
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Date: 2023-08-06 10:36 pm (UTC)I actually haven’t had any of the Crows betray me to that point, now that I think about it. [He’s had colleagues and casual friends betray him, and mentor figures, but not his close-knit family unit. He’s grateful for that.] So I suppose this is more theoretical based on betrayals of a less-close nature. Selling out my people. Getting one of them hurt through intentional means. Leaving someone behind on a mission so save your own skin. Things of that nature. What are your non-negotiables?
I’ll take my demon moniker instead, it’s served me well enough so far.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-07 01:36 am (UTC)[ Birdie decides, for now, to keep how Denver started to herself. No matter how accidental that betrayal might have been, the amount of death as the end result isn't something she wants to be part of her reputation with him. ]
Selling me out to someone else, those that'd hurt me and other Kindred. Or selling someone else out the same way. Trying to make me kept, or getting me to hurt someone that doesn't have it coming. I'm happy to help, but I'm not anyone else's tool. None of which I really expect from you and yours.
You know I can't promise I won't hurt anyone. I can't even promise I won't run. I'm not always in control of those things, but I do my best with it.
I've been called demonic a few times. It does feel a little more powerful than being a saint, doesn't it?
no subject
Date: 2023-08-07 10:15 am (UTC)No, we’re not big on selling out our friends or using them as tools. Those that join the Dregs (which you haven’t, just explaining) are given jobs to perform, but the joining of the gang is voluntary and many have come and gone. So as it stands, those are reasonable terms.
Not being in control isn’t the same as harming someone with malicious intent, but I’ll keep that in mind.
It does. No saint ever helped me. I’m not giving them credit for anything I’ve done. Being called a demon though, it’s made people take notice in a way that I can use.
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Date: 2023-08-07 01:28 pm (UTC)That's good to know. You're already doing much better in practice than most gangs I've encountered. I'm impressed you're able to keep so many people loyal to you, considering the challenges.
I appreciate that.
Doesn't help that a lot of people's ideas of what's monstrous and demonic are heavily skewed based on what they don't like. Someone puts themself up as a saint, or an agent of saints, then it's easy to say anyone they don't align with is a demon.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-07 05:24 pm (UTC)It’s definitely not foolproof, but I’ve found that it works better if you give someone a reason to stay rather than figuring out ways to trap them from leaving. If someone’s goals don’t align with mine anyway, why would I want them to stay around?
It is a way that’s been used to dismiss ideas and people whom others find threatening, to undermine their positions before they gain power. In my position, I don’t really have to be liked, so being called demonic names doesn’t hit as hard as those pious hypocrites wish it did. People in the Barrel want a monster standing in their doorway when the fangs are protecting them.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-07 05:40 pm (UTC)True. The problem usually comes up when the goals on the outside don't match the ones on the inside, and you don't find out until it's too late. Or at least, that's where my problems come up.
You don't know the half of it, but you're very right. It's a tactic they've used for ages, and they think it still holds when the people they try to push out with it embrace it instead. Most nights, from what I've seen and if I had to choose, I'd rather be the monster than their saint.
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Date: 2023-08-07 10:27 pm (UTC)It is a problem. I err on not really trusting anyone until they’ve proven it to minimize the risk, but I won’t pretend that there haven’t been turncoats at times within the gang. Or that it hasn’t ever happened to me outside of it, either.
I couldn’t agree more. Then again, the people crying monster aren’t ones I’d want in my corner, anyway. It can be difficult to work around them, pragmatically speaking, but my feelings aren’t hurt by it.
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Date: 2023-08-07 11:32 pm (UTC)In my experience, sometimes it's better to avoid motives entirely and work just with what you can see. Clear limits, clear boundaries. Not that I suggest that for your crows, they seem like they'd plow through your personal boundaries for the sake of friendship, which is very sweet of them.
So, what, are we starting a smaller club of monsters?
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Date: 2023-08-08 11:10 am (UTC)I don't always trust what I can just see, but I understand your point about clear boundaries. No, I don't have that with the Crows. [They were honestly family at this point.]
As long as I don't have to pay club dues or recruit others.
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Date: 2023-08-08 12:39 pm (UTC)They're good, your Crows. With Kindred, we call a group like that a coterie. A group coming together for the common goal of survival, among other things. Friendship, though, isn't always a part of that, though it is nice when it happens.
I think we can manage that. Free monster club, volunteers only.
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Date: 2023-08-08 10:40 pm (UTC)Do you have a coterie like that now? Friendship wasn’t intentional on my end at the start. Though I don’t regret it. [One of the rare times that happens, she knows how he feels about things out of his control.]
BYODFTE (Bring Your Own Distaste for the Establishment)?
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Date: 2023-08-08 11:35 pm (UTC)You think I could get that on a pin? Or a sticker for my guitar case?
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Date: 2023-08-09 11:13 am (UTC)I actually do know someone with a machine that can make stickers. I know you were likely joking, but that is a thing that some people apparently do have in their homes.
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Date: 2023-08-09 01:15 pm (UTC)Makes sense. A few years back I had a friend that had a button machine that makes pins at her place, like a hand-punch deal with a lever. She could make little mirrors with it, too.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-10 11:02 am (UTC)I know buttons are popular, especially put on bags, but I just think about the holes they make. Then again, probably because of that I'm not the target demographic.
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Date: 2023-08-10 02:07 pm (UTC)Well, I'm not surprised that you had the most practical thought process about them.
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Date: 2023-08-10 10:22 pm (UTC)It seems like a good way to share art or slogans. I can appreciate them in theory.
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Date: 2023-08-10 11:24 pm (UTC)Don't want holds in all your clothes?
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