Indeed. Thankfully anytime I’ve been incarcerated, I’ve managed to break out before too long.
No, we’re not big on selling out our friends or using them as tools. Those that join the Dregs (which you haven’t, just explaining) are given jobs to perform, but the joining of the gang is voluntary and many have come and gone. So as it stands, those are reasonable terms.
Not being in control isn’t the same as harming someone with malicious intent, but I’ll keep that in mind.
It does. No saint ever helped me. I’m not giving them credit for anything I’ve done. Being called a demon though, it’s made people take notice in a way that I can use.
Do I need to worry about you getting incarcerated often?
That's good to know. You're already doing much better in practice than most gangs I've encountered. I'm impressed you're able to keep so many people loyal to you, considering the challenges.
I appreciate that.
Doesn't help that a lot of people's ideas of what's monstrous and demonic are heavily skewed based on what they don't like. Someone puts themself up as a saint, or an agent of saints, then it's easy to say anyone they don't align with is a demon.
Not anymore, or at least, I haven’t gotten caught in a fair number of years now.
It’s definitely not foolproof, but I’ve found that it works better if you give someone a reason to stay rather than figuring out ways to trap them from leaving. If someone’s goals don’t align with mine anyway, why would I want them to stay around?
It is a way that’s been used to dismiss ideas and people whom others find threatening, to undermine their positions before they gain power. In my position, I don’t really have to be liked, so being called demonic names doesn’t hit as hard as those pious hypocrites wish it did. People in the Barrel want a monster standing in their doorway when the fangs are protecting them.
Well, at least there's that. Not that I've never been arrested, but it is very inconvenient.
True. The problem usually comes up when the goals on the outside don't match the ones on the inside, and you don't find out until it's too late. Or at least, that's where my problems come up.
You don't know the half of it, but you're very right. It's a tactic they've used for ages, and they think it still holds when the people they try to push out with it embrace it instead. Most nights, from what I've seen and if I had to choose, I'd rather be the monster than their saint.
It is inconvenient. In some ways nicer than being on the streets at certain times of my life, but it did cut into my plans, so it didn’t last long.
It is a problem. I err on not really trusting anyone until they’ve proven it to minimize the risk, but I won’t pretend that there haven’t been turncoats at times within the gang. Or that it hasn’t ever happened to me outside of it, either.
I couldn’t agree more. Then again, the people crying monster aren’t ones I’d want in my corner, anyway. It can be difficult to work around them, pragmatically speaking, but my feelings aren’t hurt by it.
I only ever stayed a night or two way back when. Back before I had plans that would be inconvenienced by being at the police station during the day. Usually for something I did at a rally, or the time I busted a cop's tail light.
In my experience, sometimes it's better to avoid motives entirely and work just with what you can see. Clear limits, clear boundaries. Not that I suggest that for your crows, they seem like they'd plow through your personal boundaries for the sake of friendship, which is very sweet of them.
So, what, are we starting a smaller club of monsters?
I'm sure the tail light and the cop driving the car using it deserved it. Mine were for more nefarious reasons. Theft, assault, burglary, things of that nature.
I don't always trust what I can just see, but I understand your point about clear boundaries. No, I don't have that with the Crows. [They were honestly family at this point.]
As long as I don't have to pay club dues or recruit others.
They're good, your Crows. With Kindred, we call a group like that a coterie. A group coming together for the common goal of survival, among other things. Friendship, though, isn't always a part of that, though it is nice when it happens.
I think we can manage that. Free monster club, volunteers only.
Do you have a coterie like that now? Friendship wasn’t intentional on my end at the start. Though I don’t regret it. [One of the rare times that happens, she knows how he feels about things out of his control.]
BYODFTE (Bring Your Own Distaste for the Establishment)?
It's been awhile since I visited Vegas. Apparently I didn't do it right when I was there. It's good though that you have some people scattered around that you can count on.
I actually do know someone with a machine that can make stickers. I know you were likely joking, but that is a thing that some people apparently do have in their homes.
Next time you'll have to stop by the Wadjet. [ Like the Luxor, only somehow more Egyptian and with a lot of snake decor. ] That's where I stayed after I got out of Denver.
Makes sense. A few years back I had a friend that had a button machine that makes pins at her place, like a hand-punch deal with a lever. She could make little mirrors with it, too.
I'll make a mental note of it. What do you like about it?
I know buttons are popular, especially put on bags, but I just think about the holes they make. Then again, probably because of that I'm not the target demographic.
All good reasons. I’ve never actually gone swimming in a pool before. I’ve fallen into one, so I suppose I technically swam in one, but it wasn’t for recreation.
It seems like a good way to share art or slogans. I can appreciate them in theory.
Figuring out how to rig the games does sound more useful. I know the precautions we take where I live, but I like seeing where other securities overlap and diverge.
I hate clothes shopping. I try and make the buying and any tailoring as quick as possible.
They seemed pretty fair. Granted, all I ever did was Roulette and slots a few times when I was bored. The biggest rule, I think, was that Kindred can't bet more than a certain amount at poker.
Understandable. I get most of my stuff on thrift and second hand, so I never minded little pin holes too much.
The casinos put that limit on Kindred, or Kindred did on themselves?
I can also appreciate that. At the end of the day, as long as clothes serve their function, that’s what matters most. It’s a luxury to then make choices on what the clothes look like or if they even fit properly.
The Kindred Prince of Las Vegas put it on the other Kindred. Keeps from pissing too many of the living off, or making too big a spectacle of ourselves.
Do you consider your suits a luxury then? Or a business expense?
I can understand the rationale, though I can also see a lot of people wanting to defy or skirt around rules like that. If vampires are anything like humans in that regard.
Mm, both I suppose? They do serve a practical function in that most of my business is run above board, and it helps build trust with investors just like proving to them their money won’t land them in jail. I also just like to see other businessmen and women sputter at the audacity of a thug looking like them and doing business better than they can. I want to look a little too close for comfort for them. It’s petty, I know.
Oh, they do, but the punishment for a law like that can be pretty severe. Plus, if they're legitimately high rollers they can still do private games amongst themselves.
Petty, maybe, but justified. Get a picture of those faces for me sometime, I'd like to see.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2023-08-07 10:15 am (UTC)No, we’re not big on selling out our friends or using them as tools. Those that join the Dregs (which you haven’t, just explaining) are given jobs to perform, but the joining of the gang is voluntary and many have come and gone. So as it stands, those are reasonable terms.
Not being in control isn’t the same as harming someone with malicious intent, but I’ll keep that in mind.
It does. No saint ever helped me. I’m not giving them credit for anything I’ve done. Being called a demon though, it’s made people take notice in a way that I can use.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-07 01:28 pm (UTC)That's good to know. You're already doing much better in practice than most gangs I've encountered. I'm impressed you're able to keep so many people loyal to you, considering the challenges.
I appreciate that.
Doesn't help that a lot of people's ideas of what's monstrous and demonic are heavily skewed based on what they don't like. Someone puts themself up as a saint, or an agent of saints, then it's easy to say anyone they don't align with is a demon.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-07 05:24 pm (UTC)It’s definitely not foolproof, but I’ve found that it works better if you give someone a reason to stay rather than figuring out ways to trap them from leaving. If someone’s goals don’t align with mine anyway, why would I want them to stay around?
It is a way that’s been used to dismiss ideas and people whom others find threatening, to undermine their positions before they gain power. In my position, I don’t really have to be liked, so being called demonic names doesn’t hit as hard as those pious hypocrites wish it did. People in the Barrel want a monster standing in their doorway when the fangs are protecting them.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-07 05:40 pm (UTC)True. The problem usually comes up when the goals on the outside don't match the ones on the inside, and you don't find out until it's too late. Or at least, that's where my problems come up.
You don't know the half of it, but you're very right. It's a tactic they've used for ages, and they think it still holds when the people they try to push out with it embrace it instead. Most nights, from what I've seen and if I had to choose, I'd rather be the monster than their saint.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-07 10:27 pm (UTC)It is a problem. I err on not really trusting anyone until they’ve proven it to minimize the risk, but I won’t pretend that there haven’t been turncoats at times within the gang. Or that it hasn’t ever happened to me outside of it, either.
I couldn’t agree more. Then again, the people crying monster aren’t ones I’d want in my corner, anyway. It can be difficult to work around them, pragmatically speaking, but my feelings aren’t hurt by it.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-07 11:32 pm (UTC)In my experience, sometimes it's better to avoid motives entirely and work just with what you can see. Clear limits, clear boundaries. Not that I suggest that for your crows, they seem like they'd plow through your personal boundaries for the sake of friendship, which is very sweet of them.
So, what, are we starting a smaller club of monsters?
no subject
Date: 2023-08-08 11:10 am (UTC)I don't always trust what I can just see, but I understand your point about clear boundaries. No, I don't have that with the Crows. [They were honestly family at this point.]
As long as I don't have to pay club dues or recruit others.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-08 12:39 pm (UTC)They're good, your Crows. With Kindred, we call a group like that a coterie. A group coming together for the common goal of survival, among other things. Friendship, though, isn't always a part of that, though it is nice when it happens.
I think we can manage that. Free monster club, volunteers only.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-08 10:40 pm (UTC)Do you have a coterie like that now? Friendship wasn’t intentional on my end at the start. Though I don’t regret it. [One of the rare times that happens, she knows how he feels about things out of his control.]
BYODFTE (Bring Your Own Distaste for the Establishment)?
no subject
Date: 2023-08-08 11:35 pm (UTC)You think I could get that on a pin? Or a sticker for my guitar case?
no subject
Date: 2023-08-09 11:13 am (UTC)I actually do know someone with a machine that can make stickers. I know you were likely joking, but that is a thing that some people apparently do have in their homes.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-09 01:15 pm (UTC)Makes sense. A few years back I had a friend that had a button machine that makes pins at her place, like a hand-punch deal with a lever. She could make little mirrors with it, too.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-10 11:02 am (UTC)I know buttons are popular, especially put on bags, but I just think about the holes they make. Then again, probably because of that I'm not the target demographic.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-10 02:07 pm (UTC)Well, I'm not surprised that you had the most practical thought process about them.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-10 10:22 pm (UTC)It seems like a good way to share art or slogans. I can appreciate them in theory.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-10 11:24 pm (UTC)Don't want holds in all your clothes?
no subject
Date: 2023-08-11 11:11 am (UTC)I hate clothes shopping. I try and make the buying and any tailoring as quick as possible.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-11 12:46 pm (UTC)Understandable. I get most of my stuff on thrift and second hand, so I never minded little pin holes too much.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-11 10:20 pm (UTC)I can also appreciate that. At the end of the day, as long as clothes serve their function, that’s what matters most. It’s a luxury to then make choices on what the clothes look like or if they even fit properly.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-11 10:59 pm (UTC)Do you consider your suits a luxury then? Or a business expense?
no subject
Date: 2023-08-11 11:24 pm (UTC)Mm, both I suppose? They do serve a practical function in that most of my business is run above board, and it helps build trust with investors just like proving to them their money won’t land them in jail. I also just like to see other businessmen and women sputter at the audacity of a thug looking like them and doing business better than they can. I want to look a little too close for comfort for them. It’s petty, I know.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-11 11:41 pm (UTC)Petty, maybe, but justified. Get a picture of those faces for me sometime, I'd like to see.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-12 12:33 pm (UTC)I’ll see about having some security footage hacked at some point.
no subject
Date: 2023-08-12 03:20 pm (UTC)Oh, good!
no subject
Date: 2023-08-12 04:37 pm (UTC)